EULA changed - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Stockholm · Aug 19, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherrie

What certain is that:
ANet advertised GW as "buy nd play for free" from the beggining
ANet officially anwsered (up to this date) that they designed and created the game so it wont become Pay to play
Law cannot work backwards so they cannot make owners of c1 and c2 pay additionally or they break the law

There is the little matter with A-Net saying and BIG BAD NC-SOFT doing.
What A-Net say's has no bearing on what NC-Soft will do since your contract is with NC-Soft not A-net

sparks · Aug 19, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

well you can bet one thing in this lawyer lingo of stating 20 things and saying nothing. IT AINT SET UP TO MAKE YOU A BETTER OFFER. Its there to say that no matter what they do in the future you can't do a damn thing about it.
Right now on the old eula you have rights about the ORIGINAL purchase of the game and the ORIGINAL agreements. By agreeing to this eula, all previous agreements are null and void. Meaning that no matter what you say about oh I bought a pay once and play, if they charge I can sue...NOT after agreeing to this NEW bs eula.

sparks

Loviatar · Aug 19, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparks

Right now on the old eula you have rights about the ORIGINAL purchase of the game and the ORIGINAL agreements. By agreeing to this eula, all previous agreements are null and void. Meaning that no matter what you say about oh I bought a pay once and play, if they charge I can sue...NOT after agreeing to this NEW bs eula.

sparks

unlike you i have had business law (passed it even) and this change did not affect the fact that you never had any recourse to begin with from the very start.
they state they can shut down the servers 5 minutes from now for any reason and you cant do a thing.

so what is different pray tell?

huMptY DumPty · Aug 19, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

eula did change a bit...
I say nothing much changes

Hockster · Aug 19, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Sheesh, do you people hide in the basement wearing tinfoil hats?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4764&referrerid=92302&highlight=E ULA

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10004829&referrerid=92302&highlig ht=EULA

Kook~NBK~ · Aug 19, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

The last time they changed this part of the EULA (about 8 - 10 months ago), it was greeted with the same "OMG! They're going to start charging monthly fees!" paranoia.

I doubt very much that the big-wigs at A-Net & NCsoft would take the risk of screwing up the GW business model - which seems to be working well for them - by introducing monthly fees.

EDIT :::: This is straight out of the new EULA, Section 2:

"NC Interactive offers the Game(s) as a subscription free on line fantasy role playing game service with fee based releases of new game(s) content (the Campaigns)...."

I'd be willing to bet that most of the paranoia comes from those who skipped reading that part.

Amy Awien · Aug 19, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by huMptY DumPty

eula did change a bit...
I say nothing much changes

Would perhaps be more usefull if you somehow quoted the changes, or gave pointer to which sections were changed.

sparks · Aug 19, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

ok I am not going to start with whooooooo you passed a law class statements or anything like that.

hey state they can shut down the servers 5 minutes from now for any reason and you cant do a thing.

you are correct on this.

BUT they can not change and start charging a montly fee under the original agreement done when you purchased the game.
(matter of fact when in court you drag out a copy of their ads stating NO online fee and they would get laughed out of court)

But when Anet uses statements like we are not planning and we don't intend to do something the first thing that comes to mind is, NOWHERE do you say that you won't.

like some have said where is that in the EULA?

They are covering there arse and that is that.
BUT the customer has NO recourse except court to find out what has been changed and why.

You agree to some far reaching EULA after you purchase the game then every time they feel like it they change it and say agree or quit playing.

THAT IS BS and I will bet you any amount of money this type of thing can be revoked in court.

Just like the EULA that you agree to by opening the box, even BEFORE you get to view it, saying oh you opened the box you can do nothing.
THIS has been taken to court in Ca and was ruled on.

But back to this new EULA, the biggest question I have is to put an online store in place then 2 months later saying OH we have a problem, please agree to our NEW legal rights makes no since.
Why was this NOT covered before there was an online store. Using the 18 only means that to purchase from the online store legally you have to be 18+ to do this. Try to take money from an acount when the person making the purchase is under 18 will get them in BIG trouble.

and they make a point of legal age over and over again.

sparks

The Pointless · Aug 19, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

The "new" EULA hasn't changed since April. It even says April 2006 on it still!

An Officer in my guild noticed this. No change since the day before Factions went live!

Mercury Angel · Aug 19, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

I thought it was the refund clause that got added. The one that says anything you get is non-refundable, and if you attempt to reverse the charges, they'll shut down your account. (Not sure what else, if anything, was added.)

Was thinking it was in response to the people cancelling the charges on their credit card because Anet charged them for more than they say they bought.

http://guildwars.com/support/legal/users-agreement.php

This is still the May version, you'll find no mention of the part on the one in-game about that.

Bear in mind, the section under "Chapter Purchases" sounds similar to what I'm talking about, but that one's NOT what I remember seeing last night.

And don't encourage people to not read what they're agreeing to in a contract. -_-

madman420 · Aug 19, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockster

Sheesh, do you people hide in the basement wearing tinfoil hats?

How did you know? Are you watching me?

The Pointless · Aug 19, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

And don't encourage people to not read what they're agreeing to in a contract. -_-

I wasn't actually, but it seems that there's a big deal being made over an EULA that's had the same date (ergo most likely being the same) as the last one being shoved in our face...

sparks · Aug 19, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Hockster I wear it for the style not the effect.
And don't pull the tab....the kiss is mine.

It says LAST MODIFIED AUGUST 2006

sparks

Stockholm · Aug 19, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

With this new EULA you can't do squat about the recuring charges that will show up as Play-NC support account, Witch you never applied for but curtesy of PlayNC they still opend in your name with the credit card Info from the online store.(hence the NO CHANGE E-MAIL Policy) and now they have even made it legal to close your GW account if you close the PlayNC account.

Former Ruling · Aug 19, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

That cluase of the EULA has been there FOREVER (It wasnt something added for the store or ANYTHING) - I now because back before Christmas one of my friends was going Crazy because he just KNEW that with the next expansion they'd add monthly fees because of it.

And Gaile has already said it is just to cover the Asian market. See, in places like Korea, they DO have alternate paying options just because of the setup over there (Internet Cafes, and such). And since the same EULA is used worldwide...They have to allow for that kind of system.

BTW, dude on first page talking about getting your money back, Sorry...Isn't happening. the EULA is NOT a contract agreement (Whether it can even be Upheld in Court is a debated matter).

The EULA is more of a Complex Liability Statement - Just like putting a sign on your gate saying "NO Trespassing" so that when someone comes on your property and gets hurt they can't sue you because you plainly had a sign up saying stay off my property. Same thing with the EULA, They say stuff like "We can do whatever we want to your account" so that when they ban your account you can't do anything about it. And exactly like most Liability Statements, it is subject to the Judge as to whether it will be upheld or not.

Funny fact though, The MAJORITY of the time that EULA's and other "ShrinkWrap Agreements" (things you have to agree too before you can use the software) have been brought to court, they have been ruled against (This most companies start trying to get alittle too cocky with their EULAs and add things like "You cant say bad stuff about this product" in them - Which is completely insane and would never be held up in court).

This is, BTW, why they have that part at the end saying "If you are going to take this agreement to court, you have to do it in Travis Country, Texas" Thisis because they know that the courts there are under their thumbs and will uphold the EULA (and the judges are probably on the companies payroll, if you know what i mean). But EVEN THIS can be ruled against. It happened with Ebay's Paypal company. Their agreement says that any actyions against them have to be taken to 1 court in California, and when this guy sued Paypal, he acutally motioned, and WON, a suit that claimed this kind of "use this court only" agreement was not lawful and he got to sue thme in his own county's court and of course WON EASILY because his court isnt on Ebay's Payroll lol.. This is a famous case because it was the first time Ebay had actually lost a Suit.

In the new EULA update, they added a few parts and fixed some wording.

Dante the Warlord · Aug 19, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

I saw the new rules the last time i logged on...i skimmed through it and the thing that really got me angry was the "we can delete your account, but you won't get a refund". gosh i was extremely angry!!!!!

ANWAYS thats not my question...my question is what does it say about leechers and people like ebayers... i couldn't find anything on that.

Phaern Majes · Aug 19, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Its like Kaguya said, it'd be a suicide move for them. I'd stop playing if they start charging monthly fees, and I know I'm not alone on that.

Former Ruling · Aug 19, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

That clause has always been there, and is there in EVERY game's EULA.

I will just reference the OTHER EULA thread here, and not type all the stuff out again >_>

Anyway, Leeching. Currently they don't have a clear "You cant leech" rule. Which is why leeching is a huge problem right now, in a Support ticket someone posted, they said it is hard for them right now to cure this problem, and just report all the instances of it happening, and when enough people report it, they'll give it a priority to fix.

"Ebaying" falls under their Rules, not their EULA I beleive. The EULA is just a user agreement, they have seperate "Terms and Conditions of playing" that you look at to acutally read the rules like that.

The Pointless · Aug 19, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Selling ingame items for Real-world currency IS a violation of those terms. eBay falls under this.

Stockholm · Aug 19, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

The new EULA is to make sure you can not cancel the $6.95(thats what I got charged for it) monthly charge that PlayNC will charge evryone that have used the online store, since you now have a PlayNC support account, this will show up on the september CC statements, for those that used the store when it first came online.
A-Net and NC-Soft knows they can not charge a monthly fee for GW in US and EU and still keep the player base, but NC-Soft is not above charging for evrything else including non-existing support.
The new EULA just makes sure they can point and say "But they agreed to the charges by pressing the Agree button"

Aug 19, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00	#26
Kook~NBK~ Grotto Attendant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: A little chalet outside Drok's Guild: Natural Born Killaz	The last time they changed this part of the EULA (about 8 - 10 months ago), it was greeted with the same "OMG! They're going to start charging monthly fees!" paranoia. I doubt very much that the big-wigs at A-Net & NCsoft would take the risk of screwing up the GW business model - which seems to be working well for them - by introducing monthly fees. EDIT :::: This is straight out of the new EULA, Section 2: "NC Interactive offers the Game(s) as a subscription free on line fantasy role playing game service with fee based releases of new game(s) content (the Campaigns)...." I'd be willing to bet that most of the paranoia comes from those who skipped reading that part. Last edited by Kook~NBK~; Aug 19, 2006 at 05:27 PM // 17:27..

Aug 19, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27	#29
The Pointless Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Stuck in the UK Guild: Rage International [RAGE] Profession: W/Me	The "new" EULA hasn't changed since April. It even says April 2006 on it still! An Officer in my guild noticed this. No change since the day before Factions went live! Last edited by The Pointless; Aug 19, 2006 at 05:50 PM // 17:50..

Aug 19, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15	#33
sparks Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2005 Profession: N/Mo	Hockster I wear it for the style not the effect. And don't pull the tab....the kiss is mine. It says LAST MODIFIED AUGUST 2006 sparks Last edited by sparks; Aug 19, 2006 at 06:17 PM // 18:17..

Aug 19, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40	#35
Former Ruling Grotto Attendant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cedartown, Georgia Profession: R/	That cluase of the EULA has been there FOREVER (It wasnt something added for the store or ANYTHING) - I now because back before Christmas one of my friends was going Crazy because he just KNEW that with the next expansion they'd add monthly fees because of it. And Gaile has already said it is just to cover the Asian market. See, in places like Korea, they DO have alternate paying options just because of the setup over there (Internet Cafes, and such). And since the same EULA is used worldwide...They have to allow for that kind of system. BTW, dude on first page talking about getting your money back, Sorry...Isn't happening. the EULA is NOT a contract agreement (Whether it can even be Upheld in Court is a debated matter). The EULA is more of a Complex Liability Statement - Just like putting a sign on your gate saying "NO Trespassing" so that when someone comes on your property and gets hurt they can't sue you because you plainly had a sign up saying stay off my property. Same thing with the EULA, They say stuff like "We can do whatever we want to your account" so that when they ban your account you can't do anything about it. And exactly like most Liability Statements, it is subject to the Judge as to whether it will be upheld or not. Funny fact though, The MAJORITY of the time that EULA's and other "ShrinkWrap Agreements" (things you have to agree too before you can use the software) have been brought to court, they have been ruled against (This most companies start trying to get alittle too cocky with their EULAs and add things like "You cant say bad stuff about this product" in them - Which is completely insane and would never be held up in court). This is, BTW, why they have that part at the end saying "If you are going to take this agreement to court, you have to do it in Travis Country, Texas" Thisis because they know that the courts there are under their thumbs and will uphold the EULA (and the judges are probably on the companies payroll, if you know what i mean). But EVEN THIS can be ruled against. It happened with Ebay's Paypal company. Their agreement says that any actyions against them have to be taken to 1 court in California, and when this guy sued Paypal, he acutally motioned, and WON, a suit that claimed this kind of "use this court only" agreement was not lawful and he got to sue thme in his own county's court and of course WON EASILY because his court isnt on Ebay's Payroll lol.. This is a famous case because it was the first time Ebay had actually lost a Suit. In the new EULA update, they added a few parts and fixed some wording. Last edited by Former Ruling; Aug 19, 2006 at 07:56 PM // 19:56..

Aug 19, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20	#36
Dante the Warlord Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2006 Profession: W/R	The new rules I saw the new rules the last time i logged on...i skimmed through it and the thing that really got me angry was the "we can delete your account, but you won't get a refund". gosh i was extremely angry!!!!! ANWAYS thats not my question...my question is what does it say about leechers and people like ebayers... i couldn't find anything on that.

Aug 19, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00	#22
sparks Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2005 Profession: N/Mo	well you can bet one thing in this lawyer lingo of stating 20 things and saying nothing. IT AINT SET UP TO MAKE YOU A BETTER OFFER. Its there to say that no matter what they do in the future you can't do a damn thing about it. Right now on the old eula you have rights about the ORIGINAL purchase of the game and the ORIGINAL agreements. By agreeing to this eula, all previous agreements are null and void. Meaning that no matter what you say about oh I bought a pay once and play, if they charge I can sue...NOT after agreeing to this NEW bs eula. sparks

Aug 19, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14	#24
huMptY DumPty Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2006 Guild: [BAN] Profession: W/	eula did change a bit... I say nothing much changes

Aug 19, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32	#25
Hockster Banned Join Date: Jul 2005	Sheesh, do you people hide in the basement wearing tinfoil hats? http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4764&referrerid=92302&highlight=E ULA http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10004829&referrerid=92302&highlig ht=EULA

Aug 19, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26	#28
sparks Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2005 Profession: N/Mo	ok I am not going to start with whooooooo you passed a law class statements or anything like that. hey state they can shut down the servers 5 minutes from now for any reason and you cant do a thing. you are correct on this. BUT they can not change and start charging a montly fee under the original agreement done when you purchased the game. (matter of fact when in court you drag out a copy of their ads stating NO online fee and they would get laughed out of court) But when Anet uses statements like we are not planning and we don't intend to do something the first thing that comes to mind is, NOWHERE do you say that you won't. like some have said where is that in the EULA? They are covering there arse and that is that. BUT the customer has NO recourse except court to find out what has been changed and why. You agree to some far reaching EULA after you purchase the game then every time they feel like it they change it and say agree or quit playing. THAT IS BS and I will bet you any amount of money this type of thing can be revoked in court. Just like the EULA that you agree to by opening the box, even BEFORE you get to view it, saying oh you opened the box you can do nothing. THIS has been taken to court in Ca and was ruled on. But back to this new EULA, the biggest question I have is to put an online store in place then 2 months later saying OH we have a problem, please agree to our NEW legal rights makes no since. Why was this NOT covered before there was an online store. Using the 18 only means that to purchase from the online store legally you have to be 18+ to do this. Try to take money from an acount when the person making the purchase is under 18 will get them in BIG trouble. and they make a point of legal age over and over again. sparks

Aug 19, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00	#30
Mercury Angel Avatar of Gwen Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wandering my own road.	I thought it was the refund clause that got added. The one that says anything you get is non-refundable, and if you attempt to reverse the charges, they'll shut down your account. (Not sure what else, if anything, was added.) Was thinking it was in response to the people cancelling the charges on their credit card because Anet charged them for more than they say they bought. http://guildwars.com/support/legal/users-agreement.php This is still the May version, you'll find no mention of the part on the one in-game about that. Bear in mind, the section under "Chapter Purchases" sounds similar to what I'm talking about, but that one's NOT what I remember seeing last night. And don't encourage people to not read what they're agreeing to in a contract. -_-

Aug 19, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29	#34
Stockholm Desert Nomad Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Censored Guild: Censored Profession: R/	With this new EULA you can't do squat about the recuring charges that will show up as Play-NC support account, Witch you never applied for but curtesy of PlayNC they still opend in your name with the credit card Info from the online store.(hence the NO CHANGE E-MAIL Policy) and now they have even made it legal to close your GW account if you close the PlayNC account.

Aug 19, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24	#37
Phaern Majes Desert Nomad Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anywhere but up Guild: The Panserbjorne [ROAR] Profession: R/Mo	Its like Kaguya said, it'd be a suicide move for them. I'd stop playing if they start charging monthly fees, and I know I'm not alone on that.

Aug 19, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26	#38
Former Ruling Grotto Attendant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cedartown, Georgia Profession: R/	That clause has always been there, and is there in EVERY game's EULA. I will just reference the OTHER EULA thread here, and not type all the stuff out again >_> Anyway, Leeching. Currently they don't have a clear "You cant leech" rule. Which is why leeching is a huge problem right now, in a Support ticket someone posted, they said it is hard for them right now to cure this problem, and just report all the instances of it happening, and when enough people report it, they'll give it a priority to fix. "Ebaying" falls under their Rules, not their EULA I beleive. The EULA is just a user agreement, they have seperate "Terms and Conditions of playing" that you look at to acutally read the rules like that.

Aug 19, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34	#39
The Pointless Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Stuck in the UK Guild: Rage International [RAGE] Profession: W/Me	Selling ingame items for Real-world currency IS a violation of those terms. eBay falls under this.

Aug 19, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46	#40
Stockholm Desert Nomad Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Censored Guild: Censored Profession: R/	The new EULA is to make sure you can not cancel the $6.95(thats what I got charged for it) monthly charge that PlayNC will charge evryone that have used the online store, since you now have a PlayNC support account, this will show up on the september CC statements, for those that used the store when it first came online. A-Net and NC-Soft knows they can not charge a monthly fee for GW in US and EU and still keep the player base, but NC-Soft is not above charging for evrything else including non-existing support. The new EULA just makes sure they can point and say "But they agreed to the charges by pressing the Agree button"